My thoughts on this 9Marks post on How Much Time Can a Lay Elder Give to Ministry? There's just so much that I disagree with about this, but here's what I responded. I can't help but feel like this is starving the flock and dividing the bride by men who can't make the church their full-time committment:
If I need open-heart surgery, I will NOT go to the guy who is an IT pro during the week but does double-bypass operations on the weekend...
If I need to take a flight to Europe, I will NOT go to the guy who repairs toasters during the week but flies DC-10's on the weekend...
How much more different than going to a man entrusted with the double-edged sword of God's word? Why would I submit myself, my wife, and my children to the teaching of a novice, who isn't in the word as a full-time profession? Save the baby-food teachers for the pentacostal and KJVO churches, and give me a spiritual leader who is a full-time teacher, full-time-theologian and full-time shepherd, and not waht Lloyd-Jones called a "hobbyist".
Showing posts with label Lay-preaching. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Lay-preaching. Show all posts
Monday, November 19, 2012
Tuesday, November 13, 2012
Why Go to Seminary?
Gospel Coalition had an excellent post today on Why Go to Seminary? I would have left a comment but, alas, I'm either banned or Chrome is just acting up (likely the former - dang, I need to stop being so snarky in my comments, I know that's wrong.) But I love everything about this post: the three or so readers of this blog know that I really do NOT like the idea of "lay elders" or "hobbyist preachers" or "tent-making elders", as I think it's ultimately starving the flock by having it led by a novice. There are rare exceptions, sure, but not everyone is a Spurgeon...
There's much I enjoy, but I thought this was a particularly good point about the topic of friends built at seminary, something that the lay-elder can't really benefit from (or even, for that fact, the lone wolf online student, unless they are very lively in online chats and discussions, but not sure how far you'd be able to get with that.) Here's a quote that's right on:
Good seminaries strengthen the unity between churches by building bonds between ministers. The friendships you build while you're in seminary will strengthen your ministry for years to come. The guy who sits next to you in 8 a.m. Hebrew class may someday lead his church to support your missionaries. The couple you meet at orientation may pray for you and your family for the rest of your life. The classmate you study with for a final may someday labor beside you for reformation in your denomination. So go to seminary, devote yourself to reading, and learn all you can from your professors. But don't fail to invest time in relationships while you're there.
All around Houston, there are plenty of novice pastors who need to be reading this TGC post.
There's much I enjoy, but I thought this was a particularly good point about the topic of friends built at seminary, something that the lay-elder can't really benefit from (or even, for that fact, the lone wolf online student, unless they are very lively in online chats and discussions, but not sure how far you'd be able to get with that.) Here's a quote that's right on:
Good seminaries strengthen the unity between churches by building bonds between ministers. The friendships you build while you're in seminary will strengthen your ministry for years to come. The guy who sits next to you in 8 a.m. Hebrew class may someday lead his church to support your missionaries. The couple you meet at orientation may pray for you and your family for the rest of your life. The classmate you study with for a final may someday labor beside you for reformation in your denomination. So go to seminary, devote yourself to reading, and learn all you can from your professors. But don't fail to invest time in relationships while you're there.
All around Houston, there are plenty of novice pastors who need to be reading this TGC post.
Friday, October 26, 2012
Lloyd-Jones on Lay Pastors
Martyn Lloyd-Jones addresses this much better than I could. I've long disliked the idea of a "lay elder" or "lay preacher", or in other words, a guy who works with computers during the week and then somehow on Sunday is competent enough to lead a congregation in worship? Give me a break.
If I go to see a doctor, it's a doctor who is full-time in his practice, not a guy who practices medicine "only on Sunday". From Chapter 6 of "Preaching and Preachers" (p. 100) (my highlights added)
The first principle I would lay down is that all Christians are clearly not meant to do this, and that not even all Christian men are meant to preach, still less the women! In other words we must consider what is called 'lay-preaching'. This has been practised very commonly for a hundred years and more. Prior to that it was comparatively rare, but it has become very common. It would be interesting to go into the history of that, but time prohibits our doing so. The interesting thing to notice is that this change once more, was primarily due to theological causes. It was the shift in theology last century from a Reformed Calvinistic attitude to an essentially Arminian one that gave rise to the increase in lay-preaching. The explanation of that cause and effect is that Arminianism, ultimately, is non-theological. That is why most denominations today are generally non-theological. That being the case it is not surprising that the view gained currency that preaching was open to almost any man who had become a Christian, and later, any woman also.
My assertion is that this is an unscriptural view of preaching. There are of course exceptional circumstances where this may be necessary; but I would then query as to whether it is actually 'laypreaching'. What I mean by exceptional circumstances is that it may well be the case, owing to the state and the condition of the Church lack of means and so on-that the Church may not be in a position to support a man full-time in the work of the ministry, and particularly preaching. Definitions are important at this point. The modem view of lay-preaching, largely derived from the teaching of Methodism and Brethrenism, is that this should be the normal practice and not the exception, and that a preacher is a man who earns his living in a profession or business, and preaches, as it were, in his spare time.
(Also helps reinforce the idea that Methodists often get things wrong, too)
If I go to see a doctor, it's a doctor who is full-time in his practice, not a guy who practices medicine "only on Sunday". From Chapter 6 of "Preaching and Preachers" (p. 100) (my highlights added)
The first principle I would lay down is that all Christians are clearly not meant to do this, and that not even all Christian men are meant to preach, still less the women! In other words we must consider what is called 'lay-preaching'. This has been practised very commonly for a hundred years and more. Prior to that it was comparatively rare, but it has become very common. It would be interesting to go into the history of that, but time prohibits our doing so. The interesting thing to notice is that this change once more, was primarily due to theological causes. It was the shift in theology last century from a Reformed Calvinistic attitude to an essentially Arminian one that gave rise to the increase in lay-preaching. The explanation of that cause and effect is that Arminianism, ultimately, is non-theological. That is why most denominations today are generally non-theological. That being the case it is not surprising that the view gained currency that preaching was open to almost any man who had become a Christian, and later, any woman also.
My assertion is that this is an unscriptural view of preaching. There are of course exceptional circumstances where this may be necessary; but I would then query as to whether it is actually 'laypreaching'. What I mean by exceptional circumstances is that it may well be the case, owing to the state and the condition of the Church lack of means and so on-that the Church may not be in a position to support a man full-time in the work of the ministry, and particularly preaching. Definitions are important at this point. The modem view of lay-preaching, largely derived from the teaching of Methodism and Brethrenism, is that this should be the normal practice and not the exception, and that a preacher is a man who earns his living in a profession or business, and preaches, as it were, in his spare time.
(Also helps reinforce the idea that Methodists often get things wrong, too)
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